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'Smoking ban is killing traditional pubs'

9:17am Tuesday 1st July 2008

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BANNING smoking in pubs is hitting tradtional' pubs across Swindon hard and could even kill them off.

So say two landlords whose businesses have both felt the pinch since July 1 last year, when lighting up inside was snuffed out.

"I have been in the pub trade for 32 years and this year has been the hardest year I've ever had," said Mick Williams, landlord of the Rodbourne Arms.

"I have lost £1,000 a week because of the ban.

"We are a traditional pub and about 95 per cent of my trade are smokers.

"Some of that is to do with economics and the fact that times are getting tougher but the majority of it, for us at least, is down to the smoking ban.

"Traditional pubs like us will go eventually and all we'll be left with are restaurants and just a handful of pubs."

To survive, the pub has introduced different sports teams and now it is attracting new customers who want to sign up to darts and pool teams.

The Beehive on Eastcott Hill also saw a drop in trade after July 1.

"Initially things were very bad," said licensee Andy Hill.

"My trade was down 30 per cent for the six or seven months after the ban bit.

"Now trade has come back a bit as people realise we are doing things they can't get elsewhere.

"But I think this move is killing traditional pubs. Two traditional drinking and smoking pubs have closed in Old Town in the past few months.

"And I think Swindon will lose these kind of pubs for good - banning smoking made it inevitable."

To find out how pubs had fared since the ban came in the the Adver polled 78 pubs around the town.

Of those prepared to talk, 41 said trade had suffered since the smoking ban came into force and 37 said business had not been affected.

Several of those who spoke to the Adver said since the ban they had lost 50 per cent or more of their business.

Many of those not affected by the change in the law said that more families now visited their pubs while others said although the smoking ban had not hurt trade, the credit crunch had begun to hit in the past few months.

Lionel Starling, licensing manager at Swindon Council, said that in the past year four pubs across the borough had closed - something unheard of in Swindon.

"Since November last year it's become very grim for everyone," he said.

"It is a poor time in the trade - having said that it isn't as bad here as it is in some parts of the country. I suppose that's because we still have low unemployment here in Swindon and people are still out there spending money.

"That said people are feeling the economy starting to bite."

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Your Say YourSwindon

Frontier(s), says...
9:30am Tue 1 Jul 08

While the smoking ban was always going to hit the pub trade, it's been unfortunate that it was timed at the same time as the supermarkets reducing alcohol prices even further and just as the credit crunch/recession started to kick in.

Things ARE bad though. Pubs in the town centre and Old Town are boarded up, with little chance of re-opening. The pubs that are open are seem to feel they must compete on price (which is almost impossible for anyone other than large chains such as Weatherspoons) and as we move into some nicer weather people are more inclined to stay at home for BBQs or are away on holiday.

If it wasn't for the Welfare State ensuring that those on benefits have enough money to sit around drinking in the cheap pubs all day long, it'd be a very, very hard time for landlords.

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
9:45am Tue 1 Jul 08

As with most things with the smoking ban, it's a matter of how you quantify things. Reality is that over 1800 pubs in England and Wales have closed in the last 12 months a nearly 9 fold increase on the 200 or so that closed in 2006 and even less in 2005. There will be those who will no doubt post, good riddance, because they hate smoking and smokers. Would they still say that if the Government chose to ban tobacco, and continue their attack on alcohol. The Pub sector directly contributes £30 billion a year to the exchequer and that doesn't include tax on company profits which probably will double that figure, about 15% of GDP. However aside from the economic impact we are told this is health motivated. Why is it then that it fails miserably. In Ireland where there has been a ban since 2004, when smoking levels had fallen to 21% of the population, the official Irish Government figure show smoking levels have gone up 8% to 29%. Levels of smuggling are at record levels, which tends to indicate even more consumption. In Scotland it was claimed one year on, by a piece of research, which has never been published that admissions for Heart Attacks had gone down by 17%. What was published however 3 months later was the official NHS Scotland Hospital admissions by category figures, which showed a drop of 8% for HA, a good figure you may think anyway, until it is pointed out that the previous year before the ban the drop was 10%. In England the claim, and that is all it is, because yet again no detail has been published is a drop of 40% clearly an absurdity, as any honest clinician would tell you. So not only are bans destroying business, it is not reducing consumption, which by definition means increased smoking in other places, (33% in the home). As I have always said, proper ventilation and filtration solves the problem without the need for a ban. And for the records I know of at least 7 pubs which are currently boarded up with the Swindon Licensing area.

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Frontier(s), says...
10:05am Tue 1 Jul 08

RFM, some good points there. Unfortunately they're rendered almost impossible to read by your bizarre refusal to hit the 'return' key now and again to insert paragraph breaks.

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
10:08am Tue 1 Jul 08

Very well put RFM - as much as I dislike smoking and find pubs generally much more pleasant places now, I'm saddened to see two of my local pubs now boarded up.

Can't help thinking that the price of beer has something to do with it though. £3.20 for a pint of bitter in the Beehinve is just too much. It might be a 'cultural haven' but down the road it's £1.78 without the tired old blues band.

I'd go round the 'hive twice as often if Andy's price promise wasn't; "Find a more expensive pint within a ten mile radius and I'll match it"

That's taking the p!ss

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Peeved, Swindon says...
10:12am Tue 1 Jul 08

Not too interested in commenting on this re-hash of an article.
How about allowing us to comment on the story "Anyone Fancy A Free Trip To The Seaside" Free to single parent families and couples on social security benefits.
Is this a joke??!!

Report this post »

Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:18am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual, I have no personal knowledge of the pub, but what has to be remembered is many of these pubs are leaseholds owned by companies like Enterprise and Punch. The rents are extortionate, they charge over the odds for beer supply and the tenant is required to maintain the property. Pubs like Wetherspoons and other managed estates are cushioned in large part by their buying power. You will find that JDW will be making twice the profit per pint that the Beehive was, even at their lower price level, so yes you are benefiting but not at the expense of the pubco, at the expense of the traditional pub.
I did point out to the ADV that the poll is not exactly designed to give a representative view. There should be a third category. Those who believe pubs should provide ventilated smoking rooms to accommodate their smoking customers. Something that 65% of the population have said in the ONS Household Survey 04, 05 and 06.

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
10:18am Tue 1 Jul 08

Peeved wrote:
Not too interested in commenting on this re-hash of an article.
How about allowing us to comment on the story "Anyone Fancy A Free Trip To The Seaside" Free to single parent families and couples on social security benefits.
Is this a joke??!!
Sounds like a great idea - as Cliff once said *everybody needs a summer holiday*

Report this post »

dc, swindon says...
10:28am Tue 1 Jul 08

well all i can say is that my local The Clifton is so much nicer now there is no smoking and its great not to have to wash clothes/hair everytime you nip for a pint now.

Report this post »

Casual Observer, Swindon says...
10:29am Tue 1 Jul 08

Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
Casual, I have no personal knowledge of the pub, but what has to be remembered is many of these pubs are leaseholds owned by companies like Enterprise and Punch. The rents are extortionate, they charge over the odds for beer supply and the tenant is required to maintain the property. Pubs like Wetherspoons and other managed estates are cushioned in large part by their buying power. You will find that JDW will be making twice the profit per pint that the Beehive was, even at their lower price level, so yes you are benefiting but not at the expense of the pubco, at the expense of the traditional pub.
I did point out to the ADV that the poll is not exactly designed to give a representative view. There should be a third category. Those who believe pubs should provide ventilated smoking rooms to accommodate their smoking customers. Something that 65% of the population have said in the ONS Household Survey 04, 05 and 06.
I think you'll find the only thing maintained in the Beehive is the tangy smell of urine in the toilets.

The George on Eastcott hill has a 'smoke box' out the back, cheaper beer, nice toilets and I for one would rather line his pocket.

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
10:41am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual, as I said I did not know the pub, merely offering an explanation based on the 'norm' in the trade. Everyone has their own ideas about what they like. DC, I've always found that a strange argument, I only ever wear my clothes once before washing and wash or shower twice a day. Having said that effective ventilation/filtrati
on would have removed that smell, now you are jsut left with the lingering smell of body odour, cheap perfume, Air fresheners, cooking smells etc. All things masked by tobacco smoke smell. But each to their own.

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Maiden, Swindon says...
10:43am Tue 1 Jul 08

I have to say, as a non smoker it is much nicer now to go out to any pub in town and not wake up the next day with the smell of stale tobacco in my hair and clothes. I was out on Saturday night, and the pubs I went into all had decent outdoor areas for smokers to use and the trade seemed as it has always been.

I don't inflict any of my bad habits on others so I don't expect it done to me, thanks. If I want to breathe in toxic waste, I'd go and work near the bus station.

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Grimaldi, The Big Top says...
10:46am Tue 1 Jul 08

Yes, why cant we comment on the free summer holidays story, webteam!!

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dc, swindon says...
10:46am Tue 1 Jul 08

RFM - so you'd slip on a pair of jeans for one evening and then wash them?

Maybe its me then.

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
10:48am Tue 1 Jul 08

I agree with dc - shower and clean clothes every day but at no point do I want to render that a waste of time by smelling like an ashtray just because I fancied a beer.

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
10:55am Tue 1 Jul 08

dc wrote:
RFM - so you'd slip on a pair of jeans for one evening and then wash them? Maybe its me then.
I never wear the same clothes twice without washing them first.

Report this post »

dc, swindon says...
10:57am Tue 1 Jul 08

EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing?

i am clearly filthy.

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
10:59am Tue 1 Jul 08

dc wrote:
EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing? i am clearly filthy.
dc - let the record show you said it not me :o)
I'm just a clean freak obviously

Report this post »

Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:00am Tue 1 Jul 08

I think you are missing the point. Remove the smell you remove the objection. There are cheap efficient systems on the market that can remove 99.97% of all air born particulates including the content of tobacco smoke, the air left if far cleaner than outside air. Walking along any town centre that allows traffic is far more polluted than pubs that allowed smoking. Waiting at a bus stop exposes you to far more toxins. The list is endless but HMG go for soft targets. There are many LA's who are failing the WHO guidelines on air pollution but we hear little of that. How is Swindon doing in that regard, does anyone know.? You can escape pub pollution by not going, you can't escape environmental pollution, unless of course you live in a bubble.

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PaulD, says...
11:02am Tue 1 Jul 08

It used to be the case that if you popped to the pub of a lunchtime, you would have to go back to work stinking of dirty fags. Now that isn't a problem.

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have the option of a shower and a change of clothes during my lunch break.

As for daily showers - I too have 2, but would have to have 3 if I went out for the evening, as another shower on returning hom was necessary to get rid of the pukingly awful smell that smokers seem to like.

RFM - you keep harping on about filtration systems, air con etc. Are these free to install and run? If not, then surely they just add to your overheads. Will the additional costs be passed on to just the smokers who would have necessitated their use in the first place?

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:03am Tue 1 Jul 08

BY the way, I don't wear jeans, I think on middle aged and older men they look shall we say, strange.

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
11:07am Tue 1 Jul 08

Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
BY the way, I don't wear jeans, I think on middle aged and older men they look shall we say, strange.
Hahah I have to say first time my dad wore jeans trying to recapture days gone by I think it was odd but he's 52 and now I've managed to get him into decent jeans he doesn't look as you say strange - now if i only i could stop him tucking his t-shirt into them he'd be deemed fit to go out in public with :o)

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dc, swindon says...
11:09am Tue 1 Jul 08

RFM - will UKIP identify an age where jean usage will be outlawed? Or will you wait for the EU to decide on something and then demand the opposite?

At 30 hopefully i am ok for a couple more years

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:11am Tue 1 Jul 08

Paul, most of these units are free standing so there is no installation cost. As for the cost to run. The equivalent of a 60 watt bulb. for a room of 60 square metres they can cost as little as £100. They have been approved by Asthma Societies world wide as benefiting suffers and also by the British Allergy Association. The Government consistently refused to look at the evidence Freedom to Choose and others presented to them. What readers have to remember is that HMG signed a deal with Big D that in return for free 'drugs' big D would get their smoking ban. ASH and organisations like them have been funded by Big D for years. ASH's crowning glory on their own admission ( Deborah Arnott Guardian interview) conned the Government into believing passive smoking was harmful, she used the words 'confidence trick'.

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angry monkey, Swindon says...
11:11am Tue 1 Jul 08

As with most things in life, choice is the key to allow everyone (ok, most people) to be happy.

Sadly this is no longer the case in the UK in 2008

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angry monkey, Swindon says...
11:12am Tue 1 Jul 08

As with most things in life, choice is the key to allow everyone (ok, most people) to be happy.

Sadly this is no longer the case in the UK in 2008

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
11:12am Tue 1 Jul 08

emmylou83 wrote:
dc wrote:
EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing? i am clearly filthy.
dc - let the record show you said it not me :o)
I'm just a clean freak obviously
a clean freak that smokes?

Don't kid yourself

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angry monkey, Swindon says...
11:13am Tue 1 Jul 08

And RFM makes an excellent point about pollution being much more harmful than 2nd hand smoke.

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
11:14am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
dc wrote: EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing? i am clearly filthy.
dc - let the record show you said it not me :o) I'm just a clean freak obviously
a clean freak that smokes? Don't kid yourself
I don't smoke LOL at what point did I say I smoked??? Did I miss something???

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:16am Tue 1 Jul 08

dc be careful what you wish for the EU are capable of anything. Mind you they are not happy bunnies today the Poles, have said they will not ratify the treaty yet, their President rightly said what is the point, it can't go ahead without the Irish. Perhaps our Gordon could follow suit after all he fervently believes that Polish workers are an asset (which some are) to the UK. As for the age for any clothes, it's a matter of personal choice, at the moment.

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malkym, says...
11:19am Tue 1 Jul 08

Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
Casual, as I said I did not know the pub, merely offering an explanation based on the 'norm' in the trade. Everyone has their own ideas about what they like. DC, I've always found that a strange argument, I only ever wear my clothes once before washing and wash or shower twice a day. Having said that effective ventilation/filtrati on would have removed that smell, now you are jsut left with the lingering smell of body odour, cheap perfume, Air fresheners, cooking smells etc. All things masked by tobacco smoke smell. But each to their own.
RFM -you are once again banging the Ventilation/filtrati
on drum in your attempt to justify smoking being allowed in pubs -wrongly in my opinion as smoke will then drift across and up towards wherever these extractors are fitted.

It has also been my experience and believe me I've got plenty, of frequenting and working in smoke filled loca licenced premises where switching on the so called ventilation was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

I remain unconvinced that any landlord who is allegedly "feeling the pinch" in todays terms would spend what would have to be a fair amount of money to purchase an effective unit that would do the job and we would thus be back to square one with the pull string Vent Axia on the wall doing diddly squat in terms of extracting noxious fumes. As other posters have commented it is an absolute joy to be able to walk in and out of licensed premises without reeking of the weed.

Whinging landlords need to be more innovative in attracting punters away from the goggle box and the ubiquitous quizzes, singalongs, theme nights etc are all things that work to varying degrees - I was in a sunny establishment in Lydiard M the other Monday evening and the place was rammed with quizzers - that and the excellent food were packing them in - so it can be done without being dependant on the dreaded tobacco - I'd sooner smell a sizzling steak than a Marlboro' light any day!

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
11:27am Tue 1 Jul 08

emmylou83 wrote:
Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
dc wrote: EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing? i am clearly filthy.
dc - let the record show you said it not me :o) I'm just a clean freak obviously
a clean freak that smokes? Don't kid yourself
I don't smoke LOL at what point did I say I smoked??? Did I miss something???
Yes.. this

Posted by: emmylou83, Stratton on 3:01pm Mon 7 Apr 08

i'll have a cig, just had a job interview from hell :o(

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Balony, Swindon says...
11:29am Tue 1 Jul 08

dc wrote:
well all i can say is that my local The Clifton is so much nicer now there is no smoking and its great not to have to wash clothes/hair everytime you nip for a pint now.
Not sure about nicer but the Clifton is always quiet now! Let's hope that it's still open this time next year?!

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
11:29am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
dc wrote: EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing? i am clearly filthy.
dc - let the record show you said it not me :o) I'm just a clean freak obviously
a clean freak that smokes? Don't kid yourself
I don't smoke LOL at what point did I say I smoked??? Did I miss something???
Yes.. this Posted by: emmylou83, Stratton on 3:01pm Mon 7 Apr 08 i'll have a cig, just had a job interview from hell :o(
oh that I gave up in like february could've done with one that day though that interview was evil!!! although nice to know you're taking an interest in my life.

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Gentle Ben, Swindon says...
11:30am Tue 1 Jul 08

Smoking is not the main reason pubs are closing down but it's does makes for a good excuse, the reason pubs are closing down is because the cost of a pint is far too high and no one has money to be wasting anymore, I used to enjoy going to the pub, but now I can go and buy a 4 pack of beer for £5 from the supermarket and sit in the garden, or go and pay around £3 for one pint, it's becoming more expensive then petrol and that comes from the bottom of the sea!

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
11:34am Tue 1 Jul 08

emmylou83 wrote:
Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
dc wrote: EL83 - so wearing jeans to the pub for an hour requires washing? i am clearly filthy.
dc - let the record show you said it not me :o) I'm just a clean freak obviously
a clean freak that smokes? Don't kid yourself
I don't smoke LOL at what point did I say I smoked??? Did I miss something???
Yes.. this Posted by: emmylou83, Stratton on 3:01pm Mon 7 Apr 08 i'll have a cig, just had a job interview from hell :o(
oh that I gave up in like february could've done with one that day though that interview was evil!!! although nice to know you're taking an interest in my life.
Only when I don't have sock drawer to re-arrange.

Anyway, I'm done with tit-for-tat smoking arguments, glad to hear you gave it up though.

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:35am Tue 1 Jul 08

Gentle man, you must be shopping in an expensive supermarket, try 24 cans for £8. That aside,
malkyman, I'd sooner smell a sizzling steak than a Marlboro' light any day!

Report this post »

Russ The Manc, Swindon says...
11:35am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual Observer do you keep a file of all Emz postings, its a bit worrying how quickly you found that.

I am like most on here now enjoy smoke free bars/pubs RFM it does not matter wether new ventilation systems etc work or not.The Government are not going bto go backwards on this get used to it..

Report this post »

Catti, Swindon says...
11:42am Tue 1 Jul 08

As a smoker, I still prefer the pubs now that they are smoke free! I have no objection to going outside for a cigarette, and tbh find that the attitude of most of the people I encounter when doing that.

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Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
11:42am Tue 1 Jul 08

Sorry pressed wrong but. So you are not worried about the carcinogens given off from the cooking of the sizzling steak then. The price of beer in pubs in general has always been significantly more expensive than supermarkets, but when the cheap pubs 'Wetherspoons' etc see a down turn in sales of 14% I think you can safely say the common factor is the smoking no amount of ostrich syndrome will alter that. As for justifying ventilation to allow smoking in pubs, I merely point out the reality that this thread proves. Not one mention of harm, except from me. The problem is the smell therefore remove that you remove the problem. You also show your lack of understanding of modern ventilation/filtrati
on, systems of negative air pressure remove smoke drift. The no smoking areas remain completely smoker free and the smoking areas 99.97% smoke free. Facts are Facts look it up for yourself. Why would HMG spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money in Government Buildings including hospitals if they didn't work?

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
11:42am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual Observer do you keep a file of all Emz postings, its a bit worrying how quickly you found that.

He loves me like yeti does :o)

Only when I don't have sock drawer to re-arrange.

Anyway, I'm done with tit-for-tat smoking arguments, glad to hear you gave it up though.


Oh I'm faaaaar more entertaining than a sock drawer I;m sure hehehe
I gave up coz I didnt enjoy it anymore, it was pure addiction and I didnt like it so I gave up wasn't easy and anyone who says it is lies!!! I have no problem with the smoking ban first few times I went out it was strange and the smell has never bothered me even now, Its a shame pubs are closing I'm out in town this weekend and it'll be interesting to see how things are.

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Just A Thought, says...
11:47am Tue 1 Jul 08

Hmmm very similar post’s on here every time this subject comes up. So here is my two pence worth. I smoked for years, then I gave up (before the ban) then I started again. Points I have noticed
Smoking does stink, it’s awful and should never be inflicted on those that don’t smoke.
Filtration systems would not work, unless a fortune of tax payers money was spent on inspectors and enforcers to ensure the correct amount of clean air was in every pub at all times
The main reason pubs are going out of business is not the ban it’s the extortionate prices. You can sit in the back garden and sup till your hearts content for a quarter of the price.
Whilst it may be nicer to go into pubs now the ban is in place, how many ‘extra’ people are now using pubs because of the ban? I am a regular pub user so I’ll answer my own question – there are no extra drinkers coming out to play, just anti smokers that are happier – which is fine but not evidence that the ban is a good thing.
I feel for landlords, a very English way of life (going down the local) is going down the pan. Think of all the three main soap’s loved for years Emmerdale, Eastenders and Coronation Street – what do they all have in common? A local and I bet most people can name all three.
In short, it’s not the ban, it’s the prices.

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
11:48am Tue 1 Jul 08

Russ The Manc wrote:
Casual Observer do you keep a file of all Emz postings, its a bit worrying how quickly you found that.

I am like most on here now enjoy smoke free bars/pubs RFM it does not matter wether new ventilation systems etc work or not.The Government are not going bto go backwards on this get used to it..
Lol - one word.. Google

Nothing is forgotten on the internet


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soapy, rainworth says...
11:53am Tue 1 Jul 08

Maiden wrote:
I have to say, as a non smoker it is much nicer now to go out to any pub in town and not wake up the next day with the smell of stale tobacco in my hair and clothes. I was out on Saturday night, and the pubs I went into all had decent outdoor areas for smokers to use and the trade seemed as it has always been. I don't inflict any of my bad habits on others so I don't expect it done to me, thanks. If I want to breathe in toxic waste, I'd go and work near the bus station.
It is good to see people express their views however I wonder if you intended implying that you don't shower before going to bed and that you only wash your clothes because of smokers.

I am sure that this not the case but this is how your comment reads.

finally every time you step outside the amount of carcenogens, the levels of CO and Carbon dioxide from traffic alone are so lethal that if you stood beside every smoker in the world you would actually be safer! please feel free to do some research into traffic emmisions and compare them to cigarette smoke.

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
11:57am Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual Observer wrote:
Russ The Manc wrote: Casual Observer do you keep a file of all Emz postings, its a bit worrying how quickly you found that. I am like most on here now enjoy smoke free bars/pubs RFM it does not matter wether new ventilation systems etc work or not.The Government are not going bto go backwards on this get used to it..
Lol - one word.. Google Nothing is forgotten on the internet
Oh dear I'm sure that can't be good, you googled me? you actually googled me?? hahaha oh how funny

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Catti, Swindon says...
12:10pm Tue 1 Jul 08

As a smoker, I still prefer the pubs now that they are smoke free! I have no objection to going outside for a cigarette, and tbh find that the attitude of most of the people I encounter when doing that.

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Frontier(s), says...
12:12pm Tue 1 Jul 08

pay around £3 for one pint, it's becoming more expensive then petrol and that comes from the bottom of the sea!


This might be an ideal time for RFM to confirm to us how much of the £3 we now spend on the average pub pint of lager is purely taxation/duty.

I believe that the total duty and VAT on a £3 pint is something in the region of £1?

ie, the tax you hand over to Gordon Brown for a pub pint could buy you a can buy you one and a half cans of lager at a supermarket!

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Captain Sensible, Near Swindon says...
12:13pm Tue 1 Jul 08

Yes its obvious to all that once the smoking ban came in the expected legion of non smokers filling our pubs up to replace the smokers never happened. This coupled with the ever increasing cost of beer and cider (in comparison with the ever cheapening price of fizzy squash flavoured chemical filled alcopops in shops)and the greed of Pubco's is destroying our pub heritage. Alcohol is this stalinist governments next target, and they don't care if another aspect of our Bristish heritage goes to the wall. Pubs and brewerys are just following Post Offices, small high street shops and decent public services to the wall.This country has been ruined by 11 years of labour mismanagement, and the only thing to do now is leave and will the last white middle class non minority person please switch the lights off.

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
12:15pm Tue 1 Jul 08

emmylou83 wrote:
Casual Observer wrote:
Russ The Manc wrote: Casual Observer do you keep a file of all Emz postings, its a bit worrying how quickly you found that. I am like most on here now enjoy smoke free bars/pubs RFM it does not matter wether new ventilation systems etc work or not.The Government are not going bto go backwards on this get used to it..
Lol - one word.. Google Nothing is forgotten on the internet
Oh dear I'm sure that can't be good, you googled me? you actually googled me?? hahaha oh how funny
not quite that funny...

I googled
emy* cig* idiot*

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Casual Observer, Swindon says...
12:19pm Tue 1 Jul 08

Captain Sensible wrote:
Yes its obvious to all that once the smoking ban came in the expected legion of non smokers filling our pubs up to replace the smokers never happened. This coupled with the ever increasing cost of beer and cider (in comparison with the ever cheapening price of fizzy squash flavoured chemical filled alcopops in shops)and the greed of Pubco's is destroying our pub heritage. Alcohol is this stalinist governments next target, and they don't care if another aspect of our Bristish heritage goes to the wall. Pubs and brewerys are just following Post Offices, small high street shops and decent public services to the wall.This country has been ruined by 11 years of labour mismanagement, and the only thing to do now is leave and will the last white middle class non minority person please switch the lights off.
Bye

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stfcrule, old town says...
12:38pm Tue 1 Jul 08

I would just like to say that, as a frequent visitor to both of the Old Town pubs that have now been closed, their closures were in no small part down to inept management and not just the smoking ban. I appreciate that this would have had a negative effect on both, but the truth is, that both of these premises would have closed whether there was a smoking ban or not !

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NIGE, PURTON says...
12:43pm Tue 1 Jul 08

Frontier(s) wrote:
pay around £3 for one pint, it's becoming more expensive then petrol and that comes from the bottom of the sea!
This might be an ideal time for RFM to confirm to us how much of the £3 we now spend on the average pub pint of lager is purely taxation/duty. I believe that the total duty and VAT on a £3 pint is something in the region of £1? ie, the tax you hand over to Gordon Brown for a pub pint could buy you a can buy you one and a half cans of lager at a supermarket!
ok so I'm not RFM, but there was an article in the grauniad back in November

Vat and duty THEN amounted to 28.5% of the cost, so about 86p on the £3 pint, so not far out from the £1, even more now since the last budget I'd guess

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doug@homefarm, SN1 says...
12:53pm Tue 1 Jul 08

And stfcrule don't forget that the Pipers has always been a dump, although not bad in the Hobgoblin days.

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Frontier(s), says...
1:05pm Tue 1 Jul 08

As with petrol, it's outright theft that VAT is added to fuel/alcohol duty.

Tax on tax from money you've already been taxed on.

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emmylou83, Stratton says...
1:10pm Tue 1 Jul 08

Casual Observer wrote:
emmylou83 wrote:
Casual Observer wrote:
Russ The Manc wrote: Casual Observer do you keep a file of all Emz postings, its a bit worrying how quickly you found that. I am like most on here now enjoy smoke free bars/pubs RFM it does not matter wether new ventilation systems etc work or not.The Government are not going bto go backwards on this get used to it..
Lol - one word.. Google Nothing is forgotten on the internet
Oh dear I'm sure that can't be good, you googled me? you actually googled me?? hahaha oh how funny
not quite that funny... I googled emy* cig* idiot*
still funny that you felt the need too hehehe